Episode Transcript
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Hi Everyone. Thank you for joining
us for another episode of catch up with
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Chiro touch, our podcast series where
we talk about the state of the Chiropractic
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Profession, best practices and recommendations to
manage and grow your practice and share expert
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advice with a variety of guest speakers. I'm one of your hosts, Dr
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Brian Blast. I'm going to account
executive with Cairo touch, where I consult
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with chiropractors to determine which software solution
is best for them. We have Dr
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Elena Piro Lombardy with us today to
talk about real estate tips for your chiropractic
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practice. Dr Piro is a license
to real estate agent specializing in commercial real
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estate in New York and also has
built a successful chiropractic practice on a busy
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medical campus and upstate New York.
She is the perfect person to have this
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conversation with, considering her experience and
expertise not only as a practice owner but
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also as a real estate agent.
Great to have you today, Dr Piro.
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How are you? I'm great.
Thanks, Brian. This is going
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to be fun because you do have
that dual licensure when it comes to a
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real estate agent and a chiropractor in
New York. When we want to start
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talking about tips for Chiropractors, to
think about space and real estate. So
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this I thought, would be a
perfect time to chat with you. So
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can you tell us kind of a
little or at least a little bit more,
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about what you do on the real
estate side? Sure. So I've
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always had an interesting real estate and
if I wasn't a Chiropractor, I think
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I would have gotten into just straight
real estate. And currently I'm a licensed
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real estate agent in New York and
I work with pyramid brokerage company, which
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is one of the larger commercial agencies
and upstate New York, and I've been
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fortunate enough to be with them and
learn a different side of real estate as
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the representative, verse being the tenant, because you know my chiropractic practice,
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I'm the tenant, and so I
learned a lot being the tenant. However,
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I wish I had some of the
knowledge that I have now as I
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was negotiating my lease, as I
was looking for locations and things of that
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nature, because I have learned a
ton and I hope that today, by
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the end of this chat, I
will be able to impart some added wisdom
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to your listeners. Yeah, well, so what are some of those tips
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that you can share? Say,
if you're a chiropractor that's looking for space,
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the number one thing in real estate
is location, location, location,
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and I'm certain that people have heard
that before, but it is the truth.
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If you would like visibility, then
you don't want to be on a
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back road in the middle of wherever, and certainly you pay a premium for
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location, and I can use myself
and my current practice as an example.
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We pay substantially more, probably per
square foot because we're on a medical campus
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and because it's medical whole space.
But our exposure to other providers and to
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other patients that would not maybe normally
seek chiropractic carrots. It's opened up our
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doors to a subset of marketing that
may not have been accessible without the location.
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So certainly location is key, and
then learning the market, and a
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commercial agent is really probably your best
resource for that, and someone who focuses
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more on professional office type space,
if that's the direction you're going for,
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and certainly everyone will has different ideas
of what they want their practice to look
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like, so you want to align
yourself with an agent or an agency that
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reflects that so certainly I do more
medical office based on my background and because
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it's something I like to do.
So some of the listings that I currently
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have are focused in that. So
part of it is figuring out, okay,
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how do I want to present myself? And by learning the market it
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gives you the tools financially to say, oh, okay, so if I'm
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going to be in this space,
what's it going to cost me? Because,
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you know, being in practice is
a business and if you don't have
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some sense of what the market bears
and what you could be paying or what
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you should be paying, you can
often times get yourself into a situation where
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you're overpaying and or there's caveats to
your lease that you may not understand,
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or if you're buying, there's caveats
to the property that end up costing you
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more. You know, it's just
like buying a car, releasing a car.
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You want to, you know,
look at all your options and a
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lot of times agents are one of
the best resources out there and they don't
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they don't cost you anything because they're
paid when the deal is made and they're
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paid by the landlord if you lease, or they're paid by the seller if
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you're buying. So it's a great
resource. What's the best way for a
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chiropractor to find an agent like you? You know, it's interesting. I'm
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you know, I recently worked with
the dentist and it came from a referral
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from someone I knew, that I
worked with in the chiropractic profession, and
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they were looking for professional office.
And I would say, like any other
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professional, you know not only yes, you know, read some of the
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reviews and use your typical, you
know, the route that you would normally
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go, but start to look around
and and see in the market. There's
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a thing called loopnet. There's different
real estate agencies. There's Cushman and Wakefield,
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which is the affiliate that were with
their cbur there's national commercial real estate
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offices and groups and typically, if
you're in a bigger city, those are
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probably the type of agent you want
to look for that has as has a
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great affiliation with a bigger agency,
because they actually have more resources. Typically.
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Now, if you're in a smaller
area, going with someone that has
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a reputation and that you know,
maybe a friend or a family member has
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used is also a good, you
know, way to do that. It
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just depends I think more on your
market, in your comfort level, but
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certainly have conversations with people around you
who maybe have recently leased or are in
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the process of leasaying and have a
conversation with that person if they're to pushy
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or if they're too obnoxious or if
they're, you know, too sensitive or
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what have you. Just like anything
else, you want to find someone that's
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a good fit because it's a relationship. So I would say you have to
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just kind of do your homework and
ask around and and see WHO's out in
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the market, you know, doing
deals, and why are they doing deals?
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You know, usually the people who
you meet through others are are good,
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you know, resource. That's a
great point. I think a couple
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things that you you brought up there
that I really like him on to make
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sure people understand is there's a difference
between a commercial real estate agent and,
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say, a residential real estate agent. Or you're not. You're not buying
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a house here, you're renting and
leasing space and understanding your market right,
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so understanding what it is. Everyone's
different, you say. I mean the
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real estate and Satan New York is
different than it is in Manhattan. You
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know, it's going to be different
than it is, you know, La
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to Austin, Texas, everything is
different to and it's relative to your market.
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So you have to understand what you're
going to pay and what's fair right.
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You have to understand what other people
are paying and what you're getting in
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your actual space. So, that
being said, like what should people look
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for? Aspects that they should look
for in their space and they're building other
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than location at the factor and stuff
like parking, how many rooms, those
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types of things. Well, and
it's interesting. I never really, you
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know, thought about parking, but
it has become a topic of interest in
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our current office because, depending on
what time of day it is, if
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the bank next door is busy,
it's a bit of a challenge. So
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the thing that sometimes people don't really
do when they're looking at a property.
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You know, an agent might show
you a property, they might show it
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to you on a Friday afternoon.
Well, on Friday afternoon maybe some of
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the offices in the building are closed
and so parking is less of a premium.
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But if you come back at zero
am on Monday and you try to
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find a parking spot, you know
you have to look at you know,
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when you're doing business what's it going
to look like in the same as too.
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Is True as far as traffic.
You know, you might go see
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a property, you know it at
time of day when it's not that busy
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and you think, while the locations
great in the access is great, and
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then come to find out at twelve
o'clock on a Wednesday you can't make a
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left hand turn out of there.
Sometimes it becomes a barrier and you know
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one of the things, and again
I use myself as a as a good
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example, because I did all this
without having the knowledge and now it's like
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I'd like to pass that information along. But I had a someone show me
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a space and the current building were
in as a two story building on a
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medical campus and we have visibility from
a pretty busy road. But they took
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me to the second floor and showed
me a thousand square foot space because I
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said, well, my budget,
I think a thousand square feed I'm first
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starting out. You know, that's
probably about as small as they would show
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me in it in a particular building. And so we went and looked at
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it and when we were on our
way to that space we walked by a
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space that had access, direct access
to the parking area and didn't you didn't
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have to go through a subset of
doors right and elevator and then go through
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another set of doors after you went
down a hallway to get to it.
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And I we walked by on our
way out and I said what's behind these
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doors? The lights were off and
didn't look like it was being used,
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and the person, and actually was
a landlord, he had said Oh.
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I said, well, that was
our show room for another medical building we
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were doing and we would bring the
providers in and we would show that space.
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But it's two thousand square feet and
you said you only wanted a thousand
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square feet. So I'm showing you
the space upstairs and and I said,
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well, let's talk about this two
thousand square feed. You know, it's
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vacant. Maybe we can make some
sort of deal. And I will say
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I'm very thankful that we took the
time and that I happen to walk by
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that space and realize that it was
a possibility because it had, you know,
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direct access, which is made all
the difference in our practice, and
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also we've been able to expand into
that larger space. So sometimes, depending
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on the landlord and what their ability
is, you know, you might say
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I only need nine hundred square feet, but that nine hundred square feet could
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be in a very remote part of
a building or have poor access or poor
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lighting, or when it rains or
when it snows, they pile the snow
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there or the rain there, and
it's not desirable and it creates a barrier
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for your patients. So you want
to always look at it at different times
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a day, different days of the
week, and then also, you know,
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look at the bigger picture. If
you think you know, you'll always
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only need nine hundred square feet,
you know, then look at those spaces.
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But if you feel like I think
down the road we're going to grow,
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you need to think about that in
the back of your head and how
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are you going to do that,
because you don't want to necessarily move locations
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because that becomes a challenge for some
of your patients. You want to look
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down the road a little bit and
oftentimes that's where an agent is more helpful,
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because they can ask you some of
these questions that you don't always think
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about, and then they can also
point out to you maybe a five year
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lease is something you want to do. If you're lea saying as opposed to
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a ten year because you're locked in
in that ten. So those are some
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things to start thinking about. Overall, how many approximate square footage and rooms
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do you think is appropriate? You
know, when you're starting out, it
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depends on how big you want your
rooms to be. Again, you know
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a lot of things happened to me
by the lock. Our rooms are nine
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and a half by twelve. They're
a little long, but you know,
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when you get the table in we
like to shut the door for privacy,
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but with Covid we're not shutting the
door right now because we're trying not to
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touch everything. But you know,
how do you want your office to look?
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Do you want patients to have privacy? Are You doing open adjusting?
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It all depends on what you're doing
and you know, get a piece of
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graph paper and kind of plot out. Okay, tables are this big,
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how much room do I need to
walk around it? Just get it,
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get a sense of it. Go
to other people's offices. Really start to
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understand that you, as the professional, are the only one that's going to
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have to work in there and do
it, and that the agents sometimes might
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show you a space and a seven
by eight room. You know, it's
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tight, if you're if you have
a patient that's tall, and where do
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you position the table and how do
you shut the door and where you stand
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and when you do that. There
is a lot of practical things that you
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don't always get to do. It's
not like driving a car. I'm going
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to test drive it, I'm going
to you know, go fast, go
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slow. I'm going to open the
door and in and out six times.
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I'm going to open the trunk.
You're not always thinking to do that.
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When you're looking at spaces, your
kind of timid and you might walk through
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and go this looks good and then
the next time you see it it's pretty
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much on paper and next thing you
know you signed the lease and you're in
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there and you're going, AH,
Jesus, rooms too small. Well,
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I can't, I can't move this
wall. You know. Again, that's
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sometimes where the more you can see
and if it depends on what the space
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is currently being used for, and
some people are great it, you know,
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visualizing what it could be, and
some people aren't, and that's okay.
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That's where you need help, you
know, with some of those things.
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And again the value of the agent, especially an agent who's done you
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know more, and I say medical
is a as a Catchall, but professional
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type office space for sale, or
for least. That's the difference. And
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it's funny. I know you mentioned
earlier about the difference between, you know,
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Residential Real Estate Agency and commercial.
You know some residential do do commercial,
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but I will tell you, and
the last year two I've worked with
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to residential agents in both of them
said to me, I've never on a
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commercial deal. This is a little
bit different and I was happy to help
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them through the process. But there
is a certain value if you're going to
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do a commercial transaction, find that
agent who just does commercial. It's like
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you're a chiropractor. You know you
you work on the spine better than anybody
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in the world, but yet you
know there's people out there who will say,
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Oh, I can, I can
deliver an adjustment to the spine,
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and you know, as a Carprick, you roll your eyes and no,
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you can't do that. Makes total
sense, though, but then you talk
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about like not being able to have
that vision for the interior designs. Like
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what type of other teammates when you're
starting that new office, you know you've
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got your realtor what other or who
else. Some you kind of want on
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that team. If you're purchasing a
property, sometimes architects will do non stamp
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drawings for you and help lay out
a space. Agents can help you.
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A lot of times they have marketing
people in their office. They can take
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a space and put it on,
you know, paper and help you work
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with it. Some firms do build
and design with real estates. They have
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those tools. So that's that's,
you know, one side of the equation.
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If you're leasing, a lot of
times you might say the landlord,
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you take care of the build out
and they roll that in. So a
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lot of times with people just you
know, I want to make sure I
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cover this, but when you're looking
at a space for lease and they tell
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you, hey, it's fifteen dollars
a square foot, let's say for a
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number that fifteen dollars a square foot
is as it sits now. Often times
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and they might say will give you
a buildout allowance, and what that is
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is, okay, say you can't
use it as it's. It's say you
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need this room here, you need
a kitchen, you need a bathroom,
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need whatever. They'll give you an
allowance of say a hundred dollars a square
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foot. But now say that build
out costs two hundred square foot, and
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again these are really high prices.
I'm just using around numbers. That build
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out costs gets sometimes amortized over the
time of the least. So again it's
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like if you bought a house and
it's not quite what you wanted and you
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needed to make some renovation to it, that you'd have to take out another
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type Alane, whether it's a home
equity or some other type Alane, and
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you'd be paying that off and sometimes
you could put those together. The landlord,
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oftentimes when you lease, kind of
does that, but a lot of
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times you don't understand that or are
aware of that until someone sits down and
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kind of explains that to you.
And there's sometimes other hidden costs in things.
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So, and I know this is
a sidebar from like who else to
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you need and your heat it in
things. But you know, that's where
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a relationship with a bank. So
say, maybe you tell the landlord it's
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more advantageous to me and my account
and feels like it's more advantageous for me
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to take out a loan and do
the build out myself. In Some Land
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Lords will let you do that because
because, hey, if you're like me,
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you saved a lot of money because
you painted everything yourself, because you
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had six patients your first month,
you know, and you know you had
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time to do these things and you
you know, you were hungry and you
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were going to, you know,
work to to save some costs. So
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you know, it's all depends on
the situation and where you're in. And
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for some people they're already busy and
maybe this is a second location. Well,
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you know you're not going to have
time on a weekend necessarily to be,
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you know, painting things and doing
some of the things that maybe you
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could do to save some money.
So so you have to pay someone.
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So that's part of your budgets.
So a relationship with a bank, having
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your account and having your attorney who
you can ask questions to so you can
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understand the least the lease is never
really a problem until you have a problem,
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whether you have a problem, that's
when it's like, Oh, do
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we do our homework? You know, did we ask these questions? And
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a lot of real estate agents who
are good what they do help you ask
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those questions. It doesn't cost you
money, you know, to work with
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the agent to say to your attorney. Hey, my agent brought up this,
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and here's this. They also a
lot of times know the caveats of
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how certain landlords are and how certain
deals might go because they have a different
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kind of experience. So you know
you will have a lot of people that
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you may or may not need and
asking questions in having other people who can
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help you with that is important because
they can put you in touch with others
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that you might need. So a
lot of times what happens is you get
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this timeline in your head or an
anticipate a timeline of when I want to
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open or when I can open,
and we all know build I'll stick longer
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than anticipated almost every time. So
what do you kind of have seen in
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your experience? From going out looking
at space to when I can open doors,
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depends on a lot of things.
Factors of how flexible you are as
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a potential say you're leasing, so
as a potential tenant, when the landlord
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comes back and says I'm not going
to give you x, Y and Z,
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or you're going to say okay because
you just want to make the deal.
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So there's that. So you go
and look at space, as you
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identify a space. Now, Hey, there's renovation. That renovation requires you,
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the landlord or you to pull a
build, building permit. Well,
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with Covid, do you know how
easy it is to pull a permit right
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now? It is definitely more of
a challenge now than it was. Now
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that permit requires you to have architectural
drawings, so you have to work with
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an architect or the landlord may have
one. That's kind of like attorneys.
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They sometimes have them on retainer and
they will drop everything and get the space
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drawn and whatever. It all depends
on what it needs, so to say,
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you know it takes three months,
you know it could take more.
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Yeah, it's kind of it.
I have an done fair question for you
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again, the challenges of where we
are in our in our lifetime. Right
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now with covid it's like I was
talking to a guy from home depot.
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There's a national shortage of pressure treated
lumber. Who would have thought so?
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Now, if you're if you're building
a house and you want a deck and
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the bank requires you to have everything
done before you can close the House and
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move in, you could be waiting
for that deck to be finished, and
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pretty much the house is finished,
but you could be waiting for that deck
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for six more months, you know. So you have to be give yourself
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enough time. It's never too early
when we have people looking because the releases
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coming. Do you want to start
like two years ahead be in? It
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sounds ridiculous, but it's the truth. You don't want to be forced into
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a rash decision. Like I said, if the landlord says, well,
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yeah, you want to pay ten
dollar square foot, but it's twenty and
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I don't really care and you have
to move and you're stuck, you know,
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picking and choosing. Well, you're
going to be paying twenty dollars a
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square you know, because you're not
gonna have much choice. So the more
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lead time you can give yourself,
the batter. Yeah, that is that's
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phenomenal advice. We could honestly sit
here and talk about this for another hour.
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Well, I know everyone I see
ancient at some point because I love
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talking about this stuff. I know
you do as well. What if?
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I really appreciate your time and you've
helped me, and I mean I'm sure
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so many people here today with what
you've been able to share with us.
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So thank you so much. Yeah, so the name of our practice is
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mariting chiropractic and wellness and we're in
Liverpool New York, which is basically upstate
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New York, and I work with
Cushman and Wakefield, pyramid brokerage company,
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00:22:14.789 --> 00:22:18.380
and Syracuse New York, and I
work with great people and I have a
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00:22:18.420 --> 00:22:22.740
lot of other agents that I work
with WHO do an excellent job of working
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with clients in that market. And
cushman and Wakefield is kind of, you
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00:22:27.819 --> 00:22:33.730
know, international, so check out
their information if you're in a city that
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00:22:34.170 --> 00:22:37.769
has a cushman and Wakefield affiliate,
and it might be a great one.
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00:22:37.849 --> 00:22:41.369
And you know, I don't want
to only two to our horn, but
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there are a great company to work
with. Well, thank you so much
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again. Thanks so much for taking
the time. I know you're busy,
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00:22:45.880 --> 00:22:51.000
so ticking this time to share knowledge
with our listeners. Let everyone know the
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really that growth and success still as
possible even in this new reality. It's
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00:22:53.839 --> 00:22:56.640
it's a bonus and thanks to our
listeners for tuning in to catch up with
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00:22:56.720 --> 00:23:00.069
Cairo touch. We would love to
hear from you, so we have an
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00:23:00.109 --> 00:23:03.910
inbox set up, it's podcast at
Cairo touchcom where you can send us questions,
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00:23:04.029 --> 00:23:07.390
feedbacks comments. So let's know what
you want to hear about send us
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00:23:07.390 --> 00:23:11.900
a note at podcast at Cairo touchcom. Remember to tune in every week on
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Itunes, spotify, wherever you consume
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to catch up with Cairo touch
