Episode Transcript
WEBVTT
1
00:00:00.560 --> 00:00:03.919
Hi Everyone, and welcome to this
episode of catch up with Kira touch.
2
00:00:03.919 --> 00:00:07.599
I'm your host, Dr Brian Blast
and with me today is my guest,
3
00:00:07.759 --> 00:00:12.560
Dr Mark Student, who runs the
number one chiropractic referral program in the United
4
00:00:12.599 --> 00:00:19.359
States and is here to discuss how
to get more referrals. The claim of
5
00:00:19.399 --> 00:00:22.719
being number one is a pretty lofty
one to make, but Dr Mark has
6
00:00:22.760 --> 00:00:28.120
the numbers to back it up.
For decades of Chiropractic experience, conferring with
7
00:00:28.160 --> 00:00:34.399
more than three hundred thousand lawyers and
thousands of medical specialists, primary care providers
8
00:00:34.399 --> 00:00:40.320
and emergency room departments in forty nine
states, which has yielded one point five
9
00:00:40.359 --> 00:00:47.159
million referrals into chiropractic practice as nationally. Those are amazing numbers. Okay,
10
00:00:47.200 --> 00:00:50.520
so we've got a pretty amazing guess
for you guys here today. He claims
11
00:00:50.560 --> 00:00:54.960
to have the winning formula to help
you win referrals year after year. After
12
00:00:55.039 --> 00:00:58.840
hearing this podcast, I think you
will agree, Dr Mark. Thanks for
13
00:00:58.880 --> 00:01:02.640
being here, sir. How's it
going? Good morning, Brian. So
14
00:01:02.719 --> 00:01:06.519
with all those things, just remember
according to my wife, I take the
15
00:01:06.560 --> 00:01:11.040
garbage out on the wrong day frequently. So there is always that great equalizer
16
00:01:11.239 --> 00:01:15.560
right. Our partners are there to
keep us grounded. Well, actually,
17
00:01:15.599 --> 00:01:19.120
you know, I tell everyone my
wife's big as asset is she has that
18
00:01:19.200 --> 00:01:23.040
big Merrit of put in front of
my face to I get so I get
19
00:01:23.120 --> 00:01:30.239
to see reality. But you know, you we're talking about personal injury and
20
00:01:30.239 --> 00:01:33.840
and and personal injury. I love, I mean it's just I'm enamored with
21
00:01:33.879 --> 00:01:38.480
it. I came from a family
volume practice and then I just fell in
22
00:01:38.560 --> 00:01:44.599
love with trauma care because it's so
every day is different. You get to
23
00:01:44.640 --> 00:01:49.840
learn new technology and see different things. I was getting a little bit I
24
00:01:49.879 --> 00:01:53.359
don't want to use the word board
or burnt out, because that's absurd because
25
00:01:53.359 --> 00:01:57.879
we help so many people. But
I wanted more challenges. I wanted to
26
00:01:57.000 --> 00:02:02.959
work with with with different people in
the industry and different specialties in with with
27
00:02:04.000 --> 00:02:07.599
smarter people than need to teach me
things constantly, and trauma care enabled me
28
00:02:07.639 --> 00:02:12.439
to do that. And I fell
in love with Chiropractic all over again and
29
00:02:12.439 --> 00:02:15.639
I'm in the game. This is
my forty one year. I mean I
30
00:02:15.639 --> 00:02:19.560
fell in love with it all over
again every day. It's just great.
31
00:02:19.560 --> 00:02:23.479
Now that the other thing about personal
injury and in the United States is.
32
00:02:24.039 --> 00:02:29.199
It's not the same if I practice
the way I did ten years ago,
33
00:02:29.400 --> 00:02:34.439
five years ago or even one year
ago, and I don't practice anymore.
34
00:02:34.479 --> 00:02:38.840
This is all I do is consultant
teach and teach and teach and teach and
35
00:02:38.879 --> 00:02:42.960
do research. But if I was
practicing the way I did a year ago,
36
00:02:43.120 --> 00:02:46.759
I would be pretty much on my
way out of personal injury, because
37
00:02:46.800 --> 00:02:54.400
it changes. It changes constantly and
we have to remember that we are a
38
00:02:54.479 --> 00:03:00.400
country of laws. Unless you're at
the top end of the Food Shane and
39
00:03:00.439 --> 00:03:02.960
politics, you have to follow the
laws. Okay, those people don't have
40
00:03:04.039 --> 00:03:06.840
to and I don't care if you're
in a blue state or red state or
41
00:03:06.840 --> 00:03:10.680
green state of yellow state. US
commoners follow the laws, okay. So
42
00:03:10.840 --> 00:03:15.599
the bottom line is is that case
law dictates what we do and how we
43
00:03:15.680 --> 00:03:21.879
function, especially in personal injury,
because every day new rulings come down and
44
00:03:21.919 --> 00:03:23.879
if you think at state, farm, full state, I've got, liberty,
45
00:03:23.919 --> 00:03:29.759
progressive, etc. Have a different
strategy per state or per county,
46
00:03:29.840 --> 00:03:32.960
they don't. They have a national
strategy. And what happens in New Jersey,
47
00:03:32.960 --> 00:03:37.000
and by the way, there are
four bell weather states, meaning you
48
00:03:37.039 --> 00:03:42.800
have to pay careful attention to those
states. It's New Jersey, Georgia,
49
00:03:43.039 --> 00:03:47.520
Texas and New York right now,
and those for Juggle, and you have
50
00:03:47.560 --> 00:03:53.520
to pay careful attention what's happening in
those states, especially with personal injury and
51
00:03:53.599 --> 00:03:58.000
other things, because those are the
old weather states with the carriers really poor.
52
00:03:58.039 --> 00:04:03.039
And if you think about it,
those are four highly populated areas and
53
00:04:03.080 --> 00:04:06.919
if you follow that you'll find out
what goes on around the country. And
54
00:04:08.000 --> 00:04:12.879
my job and the reason, and
you mentioned up front, that I've I'm
55
00:04:12.919 --> 00:04:16.560
in forty nine states that I consult
doctors for Chiropractors, medical doctors, I
56
00:04:16.680 --> 00:04:20.240
work with hospitals, large medical groups. But I've lectured, as you sent,
57
00:04:20.319 --> 00:04:25.240
to three hundred, over three hundred
fifty thousand lawyers in thirty United States,
58
00:04:25.240 --> 00:04:30.000
including inside the insurance industry, and
when I start seeing things pop up
59
00:04:30.040 --> 00:04:34.800
up around the country all of a
sudden it becomes a trend. And if
60
00:04:34.839 --> 00:04:40.199
I'll see two or three or four
states start showing the same thing, it's
61
00:04:40.199 --> 00:04:45.120
a trend. When I see something
happening in New Jersey, that's a trend.
62
00:04:45.160 --> 00:04:47.399
If I see in Georgia, it's
a trend because then it's going to
63
00:04:47.439 --> 00:04:50.439
trickle down to New York and Texas. It just a matter of time and
64
00:04:50.480 --> 00:04:54.680
then it hits the rest of the
country. So we've got to stay ahead
65
00:04:54.720 --> 00:04:58.959
of the curve and that's important.
So what do you want to talk about
66
00:04:58.959 --> 00:05:03.240
today, Brian? Listen, I
could tell you my favorite restaurant, and
67
00:05:03.519 --> 00:05:08.000
I'm from New York and Long Island
and I brought a group of doctors into
68
00:05:08.000 --> 00:05:12.480
the Hampton's last weekend and we went
to my favorite order cafe which we usually
69
00:05:12.519 --> 00:05:15.480
go in the summer. We pull
up by boat, we walk in here
70
00:05:15.560 --> 00:05:18.720
your bathing suits. It's where all
the the Paparazzi hang out, the beautiful
71
00:05:18.720 --> 00:05:23.160
people a lot in the summer.
It's called Rumba. So we went to
72
00:05:23.240 --> 00:05:26.600
the I had a doctor, bunch
of group of doctors come in and we
73
00:05:26.639 --> 00:05:30.720
had the best Caribbean ribs I've ever
had in my life. So if you
74
00:05:30.720 --> 00:05:33.079
want to come to the other side
and you want to come to Rumba,
75
00:05:33.120 --> 00:05:38.279
I've everyone says they've never had ribs
like this in their life. Not that
76
00:05:38.279 --> 00:05:41.120
that's important, but you could have
at least one if you could get it
77
00:05:41.160 --> 00:05:46.079
away from it. That you that
I share that little thought. But nonetheless,
78
00:05:46.079 --> 00:05:47.680
what do you want to talk about? Today. Well, I mean
79
00:05:48.120 --> 00:05:51.399
we've covered a lot already with I
like what you're talking about when it comes
80
00:05:51.519 --> 00:05:56.319
to staying ahead of the curve,
right you, knowing what's going to happen
81
00:05:56.360 --> 00:06:00.079
and not. It'SLMOS like being proactive
and not reactive, right her. So
82
00:06:00.360 --> 00:06:02.199
I mean I think we start kind
of at the top to kind of get
83
00:06:02.240 --> 00:06:06.439
the listeners to understand kind of the
lawyers mindset here for personal injury, because
84
00:06:06.560 --> 00:06:10.319
what we're focusing on here is chiropractic. Obviously, at Kira touch, you
85
00:06:10.360 --> 00:06:15.360
know, most of our listeners are
chiropractors and they build these key I practices
86
00:06:15.399 --> 00:06:18.000
and it's through with the help of
lawyers as well. So you've done a
87
00:06:18.040 --> 00:06:23.120
tremendous amount of work with lawyers.
So tell me what's important to the lawyers,
88
00:06:23.120 --> 00:06:26.360
what's important to them. Before we
do that, let's just take the
89
00:06:26.399 --> 00:06:32.519
thirtyzero foot view for a second.
I used to think that lawyers were the
90
00:06:32.600 --> 00:06:38.959
key to personal injury and they're a
huge piece of the puzzle. But the
91
00:06:39.000 --> 00:06:45.720
issue is is that I'm looking to
expand, and you set up front that
92
00:06:45.759 --> 00:06:50.560
we've gotten a million and a half
additional referrals into the chiropractic profession, which
93
00:06:50.639 --> 00:06:55.079
is accurate. Okay, it's not
inflammatory. I think the number is much
94
00:06:55.160 --> 00:06:58.439
higher, but that's an give or
take a couple of thousand. That's where
95
00:06:58.480 --> 00:07:02.920
we are and I used to think
lawyers were everything, but my goal right
96
00:07:02.920 --> 00:07:08.319
now is to turn you, Brian, and every chiropractor in the country into
97
00:07:08.399 --> 00:07:12.560
a primary spine care provider. Now
what is primary spine care? Me?
98
00:07:12.839 --> 00:07:17.319
It means you're the first referral option, not just for lawyers, first referre
99
00:07:17.439 --> 00:07:23.879
option for spine not just for lawyers, but medical primaries, medical specialist urgent
100
00:07:23.959 --> 00:07:28.480
cares and emergency rooms. And once
you become the first referral option, it's
101
00:07:28.480 --> 00:07:32.480
game over. And you know,
I talked about my wife and and how
102
00:07:32.639 --> 00:07:39.600
she helped. We joked about our
wives up front, but how she helped
103
00:07:39.600 --> 00:07:45.160
me crystallize and focus on this concept
of primary spine care and first referral action.
104
00:07:45.199 --> 00:07:49.480
So here's and you've got to get
your referral sources to run after you,
105
00:07:49.600 --> 00:07:53.959
whether it's a lawyer and ND and
urgent care hospital, they have to
106
00:07:54.040 --> 00:07:59.279
run after you. Advertising and marketing, sorry to say, doesn't really work
107
00:07:59.279 --> 00:08:03.480
because if it did, everyone who
ran a big ad were marketed with flyers.
108
00:08:03.480 --> 00:08:07.000
We get a lot of cases and
they don't, and I'm possibly the
109
00:08:07.000 --> 00:08:11.000
biggest loser in our industry of wasting
money and doing that. But my wife
110
00:08:11.040 --> 00:08:18.000
was diagnosed with cancer and she's doing
great in two thousand and eight, and
111
00:08:18.040 --> 00:08:22.079
then two thousand and nine again in
two thousand and eleven and she needed surgery.
112
00:08:22.079 --> 00:08:24.519
But back to the first one of
two thousand and eight, I had
113
00:08:24.560 --> 00:08:30.319
to find the right cancer surgeon,
and I mean I've lived in New York.
114
00:08:30.399 --> 00:08:33.159
So I went from Boston to New
York, to Philly to Washington and
115
00:08:33.240 --> 00:08:37.720
I figured if you can't find the
right cancer doctor and that corridor, you're
116
00:08:37.759 --> 00:08:41.200
in trouble. I finally found the
right one in New York City and clumber
117
00:08:41.240 --> 00:08:46.399
past Columbian Presbyterian hospital and I called
to get an appointment and I said like
118
00:08:46.440 --> 00:08:50.840
an appointment for my wife. She's
got cancer, she needs surgery probably,
119
00:08:52.240 --> 00:08:54.600
and the and the secretary said,
well, I'm setting you up for six
120
00:08:54.639 --> 00:08:58.919
months from now. I said you
insane, she'll be dead by that.
121
00:08:58.480 --> 00:09:01.879
No, he she said, listen, he's only got two hands, but
122
00:09:01.960 --> 00:09:07.399
he's got he's world renown. He's
got people flying in from Europe and Asia
123
00:09:07.440 --> 00:09:11.639
and South America. I mean des
Just not enough time six months so that
124
00:09:11.960 --> 00:09:18.919
I never take no for an answer. So I had to play politics,
125
00:09:18.960 --> 00:09:22.919
senators, congressmen, assemblymen, other
department chair and it took me two weeks
126
00:09:22.919 --> 00:09:26.120
to get an appointment and then we
had to go to Harvard because she had
127
00:09:26.159 --> 00:09:28.919
to get some blood issues done.
Then we had to go to UCLA and
128
00:09:30.000 --> 00:09:33.320
the other coasting get other issues.
We really had to coordinate this in going
129
00:09:33.360 --> 00:09:35.960
through that process for five years and
she's great today. By the way,
130
00:09:37.519 --> 00:09:41.200
I said to myself, why don't
people run after chiropractors the way we,
131
00:09:41.279 --> 00:09:46.200
the way I ran after that cancer
searcher? I don't understand, and it's
132
00:09:46.279 --> 00:09:50.720
not the fact that we're not life
and death people we care for their lives
133
00:09:50.720 --> 00:09:56.159
are upside down. I mean,
they need us so and it took me
134
00:09:56.000 --> 00:10:00.639
a little bit to figure it out
and it has nothing to do with what
135
00:10:00.799 --> 00:10:03.840
makes me so special. Mark Student, I saw in my busiest, busiest
136
00:10:03.840 --> 00:10:07.320
time as a family practitioner, I
saw a six hundred and fifty visits a
137
00:10:07.320 --> 00:10:11.759
week, which I don't recommend anyone
do. It's too much on your body.
138
00:10:11.879 --> 00:10:13.759
What made me special while I was
president of my state organization. Does
139
00:10:13.759 --> 00:10:16.639
that mean him a better doctor?
Heck No, it just means that I
140
00:10:16.639 --> 00:10:20.440
could be US better and get people
to vote for me. I saw a
141
00:10:20.519 --> 00:10:22.600
lot of people. That doesn't mean
him a better doctor, just means I
142
00:10:22.639 --> 00:10:28.960
saw a lot of people. So
this cancer doctor had credentials, had research,
143
00:10:28.960 --> 00:10:31.720
had went to them. You know, he all of these things were
144
00:10:31.720 --> 00:10:37.720
about clinical excellence. So when you're
dealing and working with all of these referral
145
00:10:37.759 --> 00:10:43.039
sources, it all starts with clinical
excellence, your credentials and are you the
146
00:10:43.039 --> 00:10:48.360
best of the best? And when
you deal with lawyers, there's something there's
147
00:10:48.440 --> 00:10:52.879
two parts to dealing with lawyers.
One is, as you have to remember,
148
00:10:52.919 --> 00:11:00.399
the big three, causality, bodily
injury and persistent functional loss. Is
149
00:11:00.440 --> 00:11:05.759
a causally related. What got smushed
and what can't you do that has persistent?
150
00:11:05.200 --> 00:11:09.960
Those are the big three and you
have to and you talked about lawyers
151
00:11:09.039 --> 00:11:13.039
up front. That's what they need
to bring a case. Yeah, there's
152
00:11:13.080 --> 00:11:16.159
pain and suffering. And then you
look at the Colossus Algorithms, which a
153
00:11:16.159 --> 00:11:20.080
lot of people understand. And by
the way, the Colossus has been the
154
00:11:20.080 --> 00:11:24.000
get rich quick scheme of the last
ten years in our industry. It's not
155
00:11:24.000 --> 00:11:26.200
going to get you. What you
want is it important? Yes, it,
156
00:11:26.240 --> 00:11:30.840
but is a teeny tiny piece of
the puzzle and we teach our consulting
157
00:11:30.879 --> 00:11:35.639
clients that. So when you look
at what the attorneys need, they need
158
00:11:35.679 --> 00:11:43.000
documentation on causality bodily injury and it
should be demonstrable and persistent functional loss.
159
00:11:43.039 --> 00:11:46.639
But there's another half of that.
The other half is a legal term called
160
00:11:46.759 --> 00:11:52.519
void dear. Now in California,
Brian, which your in, it's void
161
00:11:52.559 --> 00:11:56.200
dear. Is An expert hearing?
Is the doctor expert and will they be
162
00:11:56.240 --> 00:12:01.679
accepted to opine in a court?
The the same standard of New York is
163
00:12:01.720 --> 00:12:05.000
called the FRY standard. Fary means
the same thing, and in Georgia they
164
00:12:05.000 --> 00:12:09.159
call it a Dowbert Standard, daub
art, it's a federal standard. All
165
00:12:09.200 --> 00:12:13.000
of those things are about admissibility.
So if a lawyer is going to work
166
00:12:13.039 --> 00:12:16.159
with you, one of the first
things they do is they're going to they
167
00:12:16.159 --> 00:12:20.759
should be looking at your credentials.
Now a lot of people say, well,
168
00:12:20.759 --> 00:12:26.840
it's more about documentation. It's equally
about documentation, because lawyers won't start
169
00:12:26.919 --> 00:12:31.879
with you and less they can finish
with you, meaning on the witness stand,
170
00:12:31.879 --> 00:12:37.200
which is abundantly unfair, because Brian
you've been around long enough, and
171
00:12:37.200 --> 00:12:39.360
I've been around long enough to know
that you're hardly ever going to get to
172
00:12:39.360 --> 00:12:43.200
the witness stand off ever, but
that's how they're trained and when they do
173
00:12:43.240 --> 00:12:46.720
that they want to see what your
credentials are. Will you with will you
174
00:12:46.799 --> 00:12:52.399
be able to get your work admitted
into testimony? And that's how they judge
175
00:12:52.399 --> 00:12:56.200
you and it's so critical, which
is why your CV, your curriculum vita,
176
00:12:56.399 --> 00:13:00.960
is important. So you need to
have a CV, not a resume.
177
00:13:01.799 --> 00:13:07.120
And by the way, if you
go to the US Chiropractic Directorycom,
178
00:13:07.320 --> 00:13:09.639
there's a CV builder on there which
is the only one of its like in
179
00:13:09.720 --> 00:13:15.240
the planet, which shows you how
to build an admissible CV, because unfortunately
180
00:13:15.240 --> 00:13:18.279
most chiropractors have resumes. You know, you're going over a job with Walmart,
181
00:13:18.320 --> 00:13:22.399
which is nothing wrong with that,
but to use a resume when you're
182
00:13:22.399 --> 00:13:26.799
a doctor, you have a CV. So the question is what a lawyers
183
00:13:26.879 --> 00:13:31.879
want? Will lawyers want to ensure
that you've got pristine documentation? Lawyers want
184
00:13:31.919 --> 00:13:35.960
to ensure that they could use you
on the witness stand even though they know
185
00:13:35.000 --> 00:13:39.799
you're not going to get there?
It's not so much clinical excellence, my
186
00:13:39.840 --> 00:13:45.200
ability to adjust in my clinical knowledge. That's important, but it's your formal
187
00:13:45.240 --> 00:13:52.080
credentials through academia, formal. You
have to be careful when you take continuing
188
00:13:52.159 --> 00:13:56.559
education courses. You know, I
got nothing against Kinesio, taping and technique,
189
00:13:56.600 --> 00:14:01.720
but in in the personal injury world
that stuff means nothing. It means
190
00:14:01.759 --> 00:14:05.480
nothing. Do you have credentials and
MRI spine interpretation and spinal by mechanical engineering
191
00:14:05.759 --> 00:14:09.600
in triage in the injured? Do
you have these credentials? You know,
192
00:14:09.679 --> 00:14:15.879
acupuncture is fine, but what does
it have to do with determining causality and
193
00:14:15.919 --> 00:14:20.799
being able to opine on those things? Nothing, and that's what attorneys are
194
00:14:20.840 --> 00:14:24.519
looking for. How can they use
you in a court of law? So
195
00:14:24.720 --> 00:14:28.440
it's not the fact that you're an
incredible healer and you could grow hair in
196
00:14:28.480 --> 00:14:31.440
a cue ball, you know,
with your adjustment. And Listen, I
197
00:14:31.480 --> 00:14:37.080
love Chiropractic, I mean, I
mean, I've watched miracles, but it
198
00:14:37.080 --> 00:14:41.320
means nothing to an attorney, zero
zip, not as Zilch. So you've
199
00:14:41.360 --> 00:14:45.519
got to show them that you are
the reason they could win their cases.
200
00:14:46.120 --> 00:14:50.919
The second half of that is documentation. Now I happen to think that all
201
00:14:50.440 --> 00:14:56.080
HR systems suck. They do,
and everyone will agree with me. Wow,
202
00:14:56.200 --> 00:15:01.879
Cairo touch sucks the least in our
industry. Okay, look, no
203
00:15:01.919 --> 00:15:07.000
one's perfect and everyone who's listening as
a Cairo touch user will tell you that
204
00:15:07.159 --> 00:15:09.879
they struggle and it's hard and they're
frustrated and they have complaints. But I
205
00:15:09.919 --> 00:15:15.080
have to tell you, go to
any other system in our industry you will
206
00:15:15.120 --> 00:15:20.639
complain a lot more. The bottom
line is is that you have a program
207
00:15:20.720 --> 00:15:28.440
that protects you from you, because
most Chira and I do compliance reviews all
208
00:15:28.519 --> 00:15:33.720
day long, most chiropractors try to
take every shortcut in the world. The
209
00:15:33.759 --> 00:15:41.000
program protects you from you by forcing
you to fill in certain areas unless you
210
00:15:41.080 --> 00:15:45.080
totally erase them, and you've got
to be really careful not to take those
211
00:15:45.080 --> 00:15:50.519
shortcuts. And of all the compliance
review I've done, in thousands of them,
212
00:15:50.559 --> 00:15:56.360
I could tell you that when I
see a Cairo touch database report,
213
00:15:56.399 --> 00:16:00.320
I have a smile from ear to
ear because I know if you make a
214
00:16:00.360 --> 00:16:03.360
mistake, you're not going to have
a fraud issue. You just might hurt
215
00:16:03.360 --> 00:16:08.440
your reputation because you filled something in
wrong. That's the beauty of the program
216
00:16:08.480 --> 00:16:12.240
and and and you know, take
it or leave it. Don't try to
217
00:16:12.320 --> 00:16:18.320
change it too much because you will
definitely hurt yourself. I've worked with so
218
00:16:18.440 --> 00:16:22.200
many of them and it's an issue
and lawyers actually love it as well.
219
00:16:22.240 --> 00:16:29.480
But also don't conflate in e and
M report, which is evaluation in management,
220
00:16:29.639 --> 00:16:30.759
not two thousand and two two or
three, two, four, twenty
221
00:16:30.799 --> 00:16:34.720
five or two thousand and two one, to etcetera, with a narrative report.
222
00:16:34.759 --> 00:16:41.759
Two separate pieces, two separate issues
together. So use what you have.
223
00:16:41.879 --> 00:16:44.720
You have, you actually have.
And again, I know you have
224
00:16:44.720 --> 00:16:47.240
a lot of complaints, as a
lot of problems. Is Too many buttons
225
00:16:47.399 --> 00:16:49.759
this, but you've got the Ferrari
in our industry. Don't drive it like
226
00:16:49.759 --> 00:16:55.000
a Volkswagen, and I mean that
sincerely. What is the idea in your
227
00:16:55.000 --> 00:16:59.039
head of how do we get lawyers
to bypass MD's right and go to you
228
00:16:59.080 --> 00:17:03.400
directly as the DC, as that
primaries care specialist? So the issue is
229
00:17:03.480 --> 00:17:07.279
is you're a primary spine care specialist, not not? I don't want to
230
00:17:07.279 --> 00:17:11.200
make you into a primary medical provider. Correct, you're a primary spine care
231
00:17:11.240 --> 00:17:15.960
provider and in order to get them
to buy pass MDS, it does come
232
00:17:15.960 --> 00:17:21.279
back a little bit to the Colossus
Algorithm. Now I have a relationship with
233
00:17:21.319 --> 00:17:26.799
the former superintendent of state farm who
wrote their algorithm. And the point is
234
00:17:26.799 --> 00:17:33.119
is that medical specialists typically spend an
Orthopedia. Neuro surgeon, for instance.
235
00:17:33.160 --> 00:17:37.440
Now my malpractice is twenty five hundred, which is the most in the industry.
236
00:17:37.440 --> 00:17:41.519
It goes from one hundred to twenty
five hundred. I've been a very
237
00:17:41.599 --> 00:17:45.519
litigasarian Long Island New York. If
you're in a different place it's less.
238
00:17:45.559 --> 00:17:49.640
The neuro surgeons here, their malpractice
is three hundred sixty three thousand if they
239
00:17:49.640 --> 00:17:53.839
have two cases against them in malpractice, even if found innocent at six hundred
240
00:17:53.920 --> 00:17:59.519
thou. So whose time is more
important? Mine or there's? Their time
241
00:17:59.599 --> 00:18:06.079
is more portant. They will spend
fourteen minutes on average with a patient,
242
00:18:06.119 --> 00:18:10.599
which includes looking at the image,
doing the evaluation, talking to the patient
243
00:18:10.599 --> 00:18:14.920
and dictating the report. They can't
afford not to live in the operating room
244
00:18:14.960 --> 00:18:18.440
and all they're doing is focused on
one thing. Is it a surgical alesion
245
00:18:18.680 --> 00:18:22.559
or not a surgical a legion?
And in the end, and what needs
246
00:18:22.599 --> 00:18:27.240
to be done with the carriers and
documentation, according to the state form forma
247
00:18:27.279 --> 00:18:33.079
s stay farm superintendent. There's one
hundred value drivers and, by the way,
248
00:18:33.200 --> 00:18:37.200
in our consulting side of the Academy
Chiropractic we teach our doctors how to
249
00:18:37.240 --> 00:18:41.160
do this. But again it's a
small, teeny tiny piece of the puzzle.
250
00:18:41.279 --> 00:18:48.519
So it's about getting complete information into
your report. All the different aspects,
251
00:18:48.519 --> 00:18:52.279
all the different body parts are heard, not just a disc whether it's
252
00:18:52.279 --> 00:18:56.880
need surgery, need surgery and honor
shoulder needs surgery. What functional losses are
253
00:18:56.920 --> 00:19:03.200
there? What all the different body
parts, diagnosis, everything, and it
254
00:19:03.279 --> 00:19:07.480
takes some time. The average chiropractor
takes about an hour with the new patient,
255
00:19:07.799 --> 00:19:12.359
including documentation, sometimes an hour and
fifteen. You can't get all that
256
00:19:12.400 --> 00:19:18.039
information and fourteen minutes just can't do
it and a surgeon can't afford to spend
257
00:19:18.079 --> 00:19:21.759
that hour. So when we deal
with the attorneys, we share with them.
258
00:19:21.799 --> 00:19:26.240
Listen, I understand. I work
with a whole team of medical providers.
259
00:19:26.279 --> 00:19:30.640
I have ner radiologists, not general
radio just I have never a surgeons,
260
00:19:30.720 --> 00:19:37.079
your alogist, pay management, vasculinerologist, you name it, I've got
261
00:19:37.079 --> 00:19:38.680
them. I've got a team of
MDS I work with WHO, by the
262
00:19:38.680 --> 00:19:41.680
way, you will refer to me
and if they're not referring to you doing
263
00:19:41.680 --> 00:19:47.640
something wrong, topic for another conversation. However, what I share with the
264
00:19:47.680 --> 00:19:52.400
lawyers is you're going to get the
same MD, just not first if the
265
00:19:52.440 --> 00:19:56.799
person has a real issue, if
there's a real problem. And, folks,
266
00:19:56.960 --> 00:20:00.839
if you are referring out for imaging, if a patient comes in and
267
00:20:00.920 --> 00:20:07.160
they've got a significant ridiculopathic or milopathic
problem, which is another problem because unfortunately
268
00:20:07.160 --> 00:20:11.359
most chiropractice don't understand the word myopathy, which you must understand, which is
269
00:20:11.400 --> 00:20:17.720
court compression with ensuing neurological deficit distal
to the level of lesion. If your
270
00:20:17.759 --> 00:20:22.839
patient has a significant ridiculopathic or any
milopathic issue, they need an IM mediate
271
00:20:22.920 --> 00:20:26.880
M or I and don't touch him. Don't touch him because you don't know
272
00:20:26.960 --> 00:20:33.799
what's causing that. That that root
or court issue. You have no idea
273
00:20:33.880 --> 00:20:37.160
what's causing that. Isn't a herniated
disk? Is it a tumor? Is
274
00:20:37.160 --> 00:20:41.200
it an inflame vane called of varicks? Is it another space occupying lesion?
275
00:20:41.279 --> 00:20:44.920
You don't know what you're doing and
you're in the are delivering a high velocity
276
00:20:45.000 --> 00:20:48.759
thrust. So you have to triarge
that patient out with image it. You
277
00:20:48.839 --> 00:20:52.640
might have to x Ray your patient
if you think there's a FIS set issue.
278
00:20:52.680 --> 00:20:56.640
And and forget all this political nonsense, x rays are not dangerous,
279
00:20:56.759 --> 00:21:00.400
by the way, and just to
segue out for a half a second,
280
00:21:00.400 --> 00:21:04.240
because everyone needs to understand this in
order. According to the evidence in the
281
00:21:04.240 --> 00:21:11.400
literature, which is overwhelming, the
scientific information says that if you have a
282
00:21:11.480 --> 00:21:15.799
hundred Milli serves of radiation, which
is a radiological dose, a Hundred Milli
283
00:21:15.920 --> 00:21:22.039
serves in one session, there is
less than one and one hundred Tho chance
284
00:21:22.119 --> 00:21:26.559
of incident of a negat effective x
Ray. A LUMBAR X ray is one
285
00:21:26.599 --> 00:21:30.720
point eight milli serves. Cervical is
half. So therefore you would have to
286
00:21:30.720 --> 00:21:36.400
shoot fifty seven lumbar x rays in
one session to have less than one and
287
00:21:36.519 --> 00:21:41.720
one hundred thou lessons. And there
are no reported issues in all of the
288
00:21:41.720 --> 00:21:47.599
literature all the way known to man
about the dangers of radiation for the diagnostic
289
00:21:47.640 --> 00:21:52.920
images that we choose. So don't
be afraid to take x rays so without
290
00:21:52.920 --> 00:21:57.440
imaging your guessing, especially if there's
a ridiculous Panther molopathic com party. So
291
00:21:57.640 --> 00:22:02.000
right away with the with the lawyer. I'm dealing in a trauma case.
292
00:22:02.559 --> 00:22:07.000
I would say about ninety percent of
the time I am ordering because and trauma
293
00:22:07.079 --> 00:22:12.759
cases. I see these clinical scenarios
as sequela a significant ridiculopathic of milopathic component.
294
00:22:14.359 --> 00:22:18.599
Then we triage accordingly. If there's
no real estate or space between the
295
00:22:18.640 --> 00:22:23.200
space occupying lesion, being at a
disk, for instance, and the Court
296
00:22:23.279 --> 00:22:29.759
of the root, then if I
adjust them on in increasing intrathecal pressure,
297
00:22:30.000 --> 00:22:33.640
the disc is going to expand,
it's going to punch on that quarter route
298
00:22:33.759 --> 00:22:37.079
and could create a further problem.
I might consider better rest. I might
299
00:22:37.119 --> 00:22:41.039
consider a neurosurgeon, I might consider
paying management. I don't know, I
300
00:22:41.079 --> 00:22:44.880
have no idea. I might considering
the justice but if you don't know,
301
00:22:45.000 --> 00:22:48.000
you're guessing. It's like putting your
hands over your eyes going I know I
302
00:22:48.000 --> 00:22:51.400
can help this patient get well.
You don't know. If you don't know,
303
00:22:51.799 --> 00:22:56.240
you don't guess. Technology is out
there and I promise you the licensure
304
00:22:56.240 --> 00:23:02.039
boards are unforgiven if somebody gets hurt, and I deal with those questions all
305
00:23:02.119 --> 00:23:04.200
day long. So why would an
M D, sorry, why would a
306
00:23:04.279 --> 00:23:11.680
lawyer? Brian the question bypass an
MD for a chiropractor. The answer is
307
00:23:11.680 --> 00:23:18.039
is, if I am in control
as a quarterback, documenting everything that's there,
308
00:23:18.079 --> 00:23:22.440
but I'm working with the same neuro
radiologist, neurosurgeon, neurologist, paid
309
00:23:22.480 --> 00:23:26.279
management. If I'm coordinating that team, they're going to work with me and
310
00:23:26.319 --> 00:23:30.960
they do it all the time.
If I am documenting appropriate one, they'll
311
00:23:30.960 --> 00:23:36.039
want to work with me because they're
getting extra elements that they need to settle
312
00:23:36.240 --> 00:23:41.720
or adjudicate their case, because the
MD's don't have the time to do that.
313
00:23:41.880 --> 00:23:45.559
It does go back to that,
to the credentials. It goes back
314
00:23:45.599 --> 00:23:49.279
to going through that extra continuing education
to go, like you said, go
315
00:23:49.319 --> 00:23:52.880
through the tree. I should go
through those different courses so that you're sharp
316
00:23:52.880 --> 00:23:59.759
and then you can prove it through
your clinical knowledge and going back to that
317
00:24:00.079 --> 00:24:03.799
CV and then that it's a trickle
effect, then goes down into your documentation
318
00:24:03.839 --> 00:24:08.039
and then goes down into your ability
to triage and make clinical decisions like that,
319
00:24:08.319 --> 00:24:12.519
just like you need to right away, and that just creates that allows
320
00:24:12.559 --> 00:24:17.559
you to then create that team.
That's a hundred percent correct. You know,
321
00:24:17.599 --> 00:24:22.319
it's funny at all. Start and
by the way, we run an
322
00:24:22.359 --> 00:24:26.880
online university and teach doctorscom where all
of our courses. All of them are
323
00:24:26.880 --> 00:24:33.440
co credential through chiropractic academia and medical
academia, through Cleveland University College a Chiropractic
324
00:24:33.480 --> 00:24:37.839
and the State University of New York
at Buffalo School of Medicine and Bio Medical
325
00:24:37.880 --> 00:24:41.480
Sciences. So when you take a
course with us through for MRI, for
326
00:24:41.519 --> 00:24:45.839
instance, you're going to get credential
on the chiropractic medical side. and think
327
00:24:45.880 --> 00:24:49.720
about the perception of that and how
critical that is. We had a doctor
328
00:24:49.720 --> 00:24:55.119
in a seed of Park Texas eight
years of practice, walked into an orthos
329
00:24:55.200 --> 00:24:57.920
office. The Ortho gave him five
minutes to kiss his ring. I mean
330
00:24:57.960 --> 00:25:03.240
that was his mindset because the Ortho
wanted as referrals. Gave me five minutes.
331
00:25:03.799 --> 00:25:07.319
They actually spend forty five minutes and
all they did was talking about MRI,
332
00:25:07.960 --> 00:25:14.319
slice acquisition sequencing. The staff was
beating the door down. Document you
333
00:25:14.480 --> 00:25:18.720
behind and and and the Ortho said
to the CAIRAS says, I love Chiropractic.
334
00:25:18.960 --> 00:25:22.319
You're the first smart chiropractor I work
with, I've ever spoken to.
335
00:25:22.119 --> 00:25:26.440
That year he got over a hundred
and fifty referrals from one end date and
336
00:25:26.519 --> 00:25:32.440
the lawyers are just flocking because now
they have that relationship. So you use
337
00:25:32.480 --> 00:25:37.160
your clinical excellence and its starts with
credentials, but you've got to have all
338
00:25:37.200 --> 00:25:40.640
your pieces in place. And again, when I on board a doctor on
339
00:25:40.680 --> 00:25:47.839
our consulting side, which could be
founded teach chiroscom which is our consulting side,
340
00:25:47.880 --> 00:25:51.359
I on board them with a compliance
review and I look at every word
341
00:25:51.400 --> 00:25:56.839
and every document and and ever you
have to be compliant first. So if
342
00:25:56.960 --> 00:26:00.039
you're working with and by the way, within Cairo touch, there's a program
343
00:26:00.079 --> 00:26:04.279
called bullet touch Pi, which is
not just for personal injury. It's part
344
00:26:04.359 --> 00:26:08.119
of your subscription with them, but
you get it. Doesn't question anything.
345
00:26:08.160 --> 00:26:11.519
I heard you to look at that. I help them write that. Again,
346
00:26:11.599 --> 00:26:15.039
they didn't hire me, they don't
pay me. I don't pay them
347
00:26:15.759 --> 00:26:19.599
on with Cairo touch at that level
because I look for the best in the
348
00:26:19.599 --> 00:26:25.759
industry. So you could have all
the credentials in the world, you can
349
00:26:25.839 --> 00:26:30.079
have all the knowledge in the world
and if your documentation is upside down,
350
00:26:30.119 --> 00:26:34.079
you're going to end up nowhere and
perhaps with an investigation or lawsuit. Conversely,
351
00:26:34.119 --> 00:26:38.440
you could have the best documentation in
the world with no credentials or knowledge
352
00:26:38.440 --> 00:26:42.160
base and you'll lend, and that's
reputation, by the way, you'll end
353
00:26:42.200 --> 00:26:47.000
up with a poor one and not
have referrals. So you have to have
354
00:26:47.119 --> 00:26:51.799
all of your tools together to make
it work. And when I work with
355
00:26:51.839 --> 00:26:56.680
people I tell them we don't offer
get rich quick programs because they don't work.
356
00:26:56.720 --> 00:27:00.480
If it's too good to be you
can't live in the sound bite world.
357
00:27:00.519 --> 00:27:04.200
And as Cairos and been in this
industry for you for four decades,
358
00:27:04.759 --> 00:27:08.279
you know it's the old Chiro one
step to step. You professed to know
359
00:27:08.359 --> 00:27:12.480
a hundred percent but you really only
know ten percent. That'll bury you in
360
00:27:12.519 --> 00:27:18.839
a heartbeat because the people you're working
with are really smart lawyers and these they're
361
00:27:18.880 --> 00:27:22.319
really smart and the old Chiro one
step, two step has to go out
362
00:27:22.359 --> 00:27:26.519
the window. There are credentially programs. We've created the only so far,
363
00:27:26.559 --> 00:27:33.799
the only fellowship in the chiropractic industry
where in medical school and Chiropractic College and
364
00:27:33.920 --> 00:27:40.039
joint providership certify as a chiropractor,
as a fellow in primary spine care,
365
00:27:40.079 --> 00:27:42.920
you could become a fellow certified by
medical school. We created that. It's
366
00:27:42.960 --> 00:27:49.200
there. We have qualification programs and
trauma and primary spine care and MRI.
367
00:27:49.680 --> 00:27:55.119
That's recognized through Cleveland University, with
courses through the Medical Academy as well.
368
00:27:55.160 --> 00:27:59.319
So we've got a lot of ways
to help bring you up the ladder should
369
00:27:59.400 --> 00:28:02.920
you need to. Brian, I
think my time is almost up, unless
370
00:28:02.920 --> 00:28:06.519
there's anything else you want me to
talk about what just mentioned where people can
371
00:28:06.519 --> 00:28:10.839
find out more about what it is
that you guys do for Academy Chiropractic,
372
00:28:10.880 --> 00:28:12.480
for teach Chiros. Can you mention
that one more time so people know where
373
00:28:12.480 --> 00:28:19.279
to go? Three places you want
academics go to teach doctorscom. That's easy.
374
00:28:19.440 --> 00:28:22.680
You want to learn about our consulting
side and how we teach you how
375
00:28:22.720 --> 00:28:29.759
to do all this stuff, it's
teach chiroscom C Hiros. And if you
376
00:28:29.759 --> 00:28:33.480
want an oversight of everything we do
and look at people's clinical excellence awards,
377
00:28:33.480 --> 00:28:37.920
etcenter just started the academy Chiropractic Docto. Or call me. Will we put
378
00:28:37.960 --> 00:28:41.359
my phone number out there? Six, three, one, seven hundred eighty
379
00:28:41.359 --> 00:28:45.680
six four two hundred and fifty three. That's three, one, seven hundred
380
00:28:45.680 --> 00:28:48.519
and eighty six four two hundred and
fifty three. I'd love to chat with
381
00:28:48.559 --> 00:28:51.440
you, doc. Thank you so
much and thanks again for talking about the
382
00:28:51.440 --> 00:28:53.559
bullet touch Pi Macros, because that
is a big part of Cairo touch.
383
00:28:53.640 --> 00:28:57.599
For the documentation, what you've been
able to build build with us is utilizing
384
00:28:57.640 --> 00:29:02.559
that that comes with Cairo touch.
The documentation comes with the system. So
385
00:29:02.599 --> 00:29:06.440
I appreciate you talking about that because
it is a big part of like we
386
00:29:06.519 --> 00:29:11.079
mentioned, the documentations there to protect
you. So thanks again, doc for
387
00:29:11.119 --> 00:29:14.720
sharing your knowledge on this topic.
I hope this conversation is expired some of
388
00:29:14.720 --> 00:29:19.119
our providers out there to put their
renewed emphasis on clinical excellence and start the
389
00:29:19.160 --> 00:29:23.240
work of transforming their practice with referrals. Then you do our listeners for tuning
390
00:29:23.279 --> 00:29:26.920
in to catch up with Cairo touch. You can find more catch up with
391
00:29:26.960 --> 00:29:33.519
Cairo touch episodes on spotify, itunes, Cairo touchcom podcast. And again I'm
392
00:29:33.599 --> 00:29:37.000
your host, Dr Brian Blast,
and I wish everyone listening a well adjusted
393
00:29:37.079 -->
day.
